Q & A: Mat Whitecross and Ray Winstone

Mat Whitecross and Ray Winstone talk about their new film, Ashes, following its Irish premiere at the 25th Foyle Film Festival

Mat, you have a tremendous CV for such a young director. What was it like directing something of this magnitude?

Mat Whitecross (hereafter MW): I drew from my personal experience. My father had Alzheimer's, and while he was going through the last few years of his life, I wrote down everything that happened along the way. What I wanted, in the end, was a third person presentation of the disease based on his experience, but made a bit more palatable on screen. And when Ray arrived to record some dialogue, I thought he would be perfect for the role (of Frank, the Alzheimer's suffering ex-gangster). He has such range, and he's played a lot of "hard" people.

Ray, what was it like to have a part like this come your way?

Ray Winstone (hereafter RW): At first, you find yourself really flying. Truly good roles come along once in a blue moon; a lot of other roles just pay the rent. But there's also the fear factor; you do doubt yourself during the process. Being an actor is a schizophrenic profession, where you're always dressing up pretending to be someone else.

To me, you've got to approach a movie about Alzheimer’s as if it were a thriller; otherwise, it can turn into a documentary. It's the kind of movie in which you can do nothing for the other actors who are with you. It was upsetting. It increased my awareness. It really brought it home.

Mat, when directing Ray, did you just let him "go with it", or did you approach it through your father's experience?

MW: We looked at what happened to Dad, and I got the idea of how to portray Alzheimer's at its various stages. Then we read a script and spent a day with the Alzheimer's Society. The big decision was: at what stage would we take it from? Where would we start?

It must have been fairly challenging for you, Ray...

RW: I don't think there are any rules to follow with a portrayal like this. Your character, for example, is the sort who can play the piano when he least expects it. It's like being a layman; looking in from the outside. In a way, it kind of reflects real life, because of the clarity of it all. I think that, at times, you have to break out and truly show the monster that lies underneath. There was a bit of improvisation involved, and I found myself using muscles that I hadn't used for years. It was a very demanding part to play.

It was also kind of difficult getting into character, quite terrifying really, because you need to know if you're "doing it right". When I do a film, any film, I always like to feel like I'm finding my way.

Was it therapeutic for both of you?

MW: I think the "therapy", as such, came from getting something positive out of such a negative experience, from watching Ray playing Frank, and from realising that there is an audience out there for films such as this one. It's been very moving for me to show the film to all of you. We had such a great time on set. We need to vote with our feet to ensure these kind of films continue to be made, because even though they've gotten easier to produce, they’ve become harder to distribute.

RW: It reminds me of when I made The War Zone (another film with frightening subject matter) and wondered, "Why am I doing this?" But then, you speak to the director and realise that you are doing it for the right reasons. That helps.

MW: Having Ray on board also helped – immensely. Ashes would never have happened without him. It takes a certain kind of actor to say "I believe in this project no matter what the finances". That's how small films get made these days.

Did you draw inspiration from other films, Mat?

MW: I did. My dad used to love gangster films, and I tried to draw from those kinds of thrillers. I was particularly influenced by David Lynch and especially Lost Highway, my favourite film. But I personally feel that if you keep looking at specific shots from specific films, you're in danger of borrowing them unconsciously. What Ashes did was act as an antidote to the more "musical" films I’d been doing. It saved me from being typecast as a director.

And then there's the inevitable comparison to Rain Man...

MW: It hadn't occurred to us, really. But it is one of the most popular films of all time. So rather than specifically borrow from it, I decided to do a little variation on it. The worse Tom Cruise feels at the beginning, the more he redeems himself later on. And with Jim Sturgess's character feeling so vulnerable at the start of Ashes, the inspiration worked well for me.

There were flashes of humour in the tale of a guy "losing his faculty". Were you at all conscious that you may be "treading the line" a little?

MW: When you watch Ashes, you're not laughing *at* someone, but at how surreal the scenario is. The film contains the sort of gallows humour that helps you get through difficult situations. It's about more than laughter; it's about recognising the reality of it all. It's not about cruel humour, but a cruel part of life, and the only way to deal with it is to laugh. There's something beautiful and heroic, also, about the "little moments" that occur during Alzheimer's.

Ashes was made on a low budget with a tight schedule. Do you favour small films like this one, Ray, or bigger films like The Departed?

RW: It's a shame, really.  Most of the films you truly want to make have low budgets and don’t pay very well. But making Indiana Jones 4 and The Departed has given me the chance to make these films in the first place. I've been fortunate to make my name in a game where I've met people from all over the world. It's been an educational experience.

Mat, how did you find directing a character you knew really well to someone you didn't know at all?

MW: I've been very lucky. Ray has the patience of a saint. His portrayal, amazing, emotional and very tough at the same time, really brought it home.

In closing, Ray, what's the best advice you can give to actors?

RW: To me, it's like anything you do; it's all about observation. I wouldn't really know where to start. But I know that if someone is making a film for the right reason, then that makes it easier for any actor.

To read our review of Ashes (part of a larger review) click here.